Units format

Units format - question about units - Сообщения

#1 Опубликовано: 07.06.2022 11:05:09
PEDRO HYGOR

PEDRO HYGOR

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Anyone can help me?

I would like to transform into kN*m
#2 Опубликовано: 07.06.2022 11:24:18
Davide Carpi

Davide Carpi

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I guess you have to fix the units before the calculation, since it is an empirical formula involving units.

Therefore you have to divide by the expected input unit and multiply the result to match the expected output unit.

2022-06-07 16_23_21-SMath Solver - [Worksheet1_].png
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#3 Опубликовано: 07.06.2022 11:38:09
PEDRO HYGOR

PEDRO HYGOR

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I tried that, but I couldn't

Wrote

I guess you have to fix the units before the calculation, since it is an empirical formula involving units.

Therefore you have to divide by the expected input unit and multiply the result to match the expected output unit.

2022-06-07 16_23_21-SMath Solver - [Worksheet1_].png



#4 Опубликовано: 07.06.2022 12:46:21
sergio

sergio

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You have to explain better. What happen? Maybe you get the result in "J"? It's correct; just position yourself at the bottom of the result, a black square (placeholder) appears and you set the desired unit.
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#5 Опубликовано: 07.06.2022 14:09:02
PEDRO HYGOR

PEDRO HYGOR

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Thank you very much for the answer pompelmo. I wasn't using this "MPa" as you used in this formula. Thank you very much, again. Now I can easily dimension my beam. :d

Wrote

You have to explain better. What happen? Maybe you get the result in "J"? It's correct; just position yourself at the bottom of the result, a black square (placeholder) appears and you set the desired unit.
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#6 Опубликовано: 07.06.2022 17:30:09
PEDRO HYGOR

PEDRO HYGOR

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Thank you, Jean!
Wrote

kN.PNG



#7 Опубликовано: 07.06.2022 19:17:06
Davide Carpi

Davide Carpi

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Wrote

kN.PNG



And now, after artificially removing the evil units result without questioning if it is an input error, a wrong equation, a bug in the program or something else, you are off by 2 orders of magnitude...


This is a member resistance, it will "just" cost a lot of money more than what it should, but if it was an action, no safety factor can fix such mistakes and save a life.
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6 пользователям понравился этот пост
Alvaro Diaz Falconi 07.06.2022 20:55:00, fedeghi 08.06.2022 03:11:00, Mark R Harris 08.06.2022 03:56:00, sergio 08.06.2022 04:46:00, João Felipe Seráfico Melo 08.06.2022 08:26:00, overlord 08.06.2022 10:57:00
#8 Опубликовано: 08.06.2022 08:47:34
João Felipe Seráfico Melo

João Felipe Seráfico Melo

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There are many empirical formulas involving the characteristic concrete strength to compression. They won't follow strict physical unit consistency. Davide approach is the ONLY one suitable for those. Jean approach is absurd and simply wrong.

[POR] Pedroh, no meu canal vais encontra rum curso completo do SMath in portuguese. https://www.youtube.com/user/JFASACM
#9 Опубликовано: 08.06.2022 09:31:22
Davide Carpi

Davide Carpi

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Jean, you have to work consistenly with units, whatever you use them explicitely like in SMath/Mathcad, or implicitly like in Excel or by hand (or in SMath too, using only numbers).

Your first example is an hibrid approach that deletes the output units from a calculation with explicit units that contains an experimental formula not balanced with the appropriate units.

Hence you miss a 100 factor [(1E-6)^(2/3)*1E6].

Wrote

You have not invented M formula, just borrowed.
As well, borrow [p, b, h] and result unit.
UnitsStandard.PNG



And this is another mess....

Input units: Pressure... what pressure? The math works only if you give MPa as input, and you get MPa as output.
2022-06-08 14_02_12-SMath Solver - [Worksheet1.sm_].png

Output units: blablabla what unit represents? If you use the correct input unit for pressure (MPa = N/mm2) you miss a 1E6 factor... 0.023 would be in MNm
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#10 Опубликовано: 08.06.2022 09:45:46
PEDRO HYGOR

PEDRO HYGOR

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Fiquei em dúvida se funcionaria elevando o MPa a 2/3. Mas já assisti toda essa sua playlist ai, amigo. Pretende continuar com mais vídeos sobre o Smath? Muito bom os vídeos e muito grato pela contribuição.
Wrote

There are many empirical formulas involving the characteristic concrete strength to compression. They won't follow strict physical unit consistency. Davide approach is the ONLY one suitable for those. Jean approach is absurd and simply wrong.

[POR] Pedroh, no meu canal vais encontra rum curso completo do SMath in portuguese. https://www.youtube.com/user/JFASACM



#11 Опубликовано: 08.06.2022 10:27:34
Jean Giraud

Jean Giraud

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The all matter is to explicit result in units.
As SI applicable or Engineering system.

Thermies.PNG
#12 Опубликовано: 08.06.2022 10:37:22
Alvaro Diaz Falconi

Alvaro Diaz Falconi

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Wrote

... here is a working example.

Reynolds.PNG



I think the question is a bit serious:

Is the SMath forum a reliable source of technical information or is it simply riddled with serious engineering errors?

That Reynolds number result has already been shown to be wrong, but it keeps showing up. And it is also not very pleasant to think that for new or occasional visitors they are not going to be noticing who posts ridiculous things, but simply that those who post here leave them in view.

[albumimg]1669[/albumimg]

Best regards.
Alvaro.
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overlord 08.06.2022 10:57:00, fedeghi 08.06.2022 11:34:00, churichuro 08.06.2022 13:17:00
#13 Опубликовано: 08.06.2022 14:02:01
Jean Giraud

Jean Giraud

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Wrote

That Reynolds number result has already been shown to be wrong, but it keeps showing up


Reynolds in Samples Viscosity Water is correct for general use.
For Orifice Plate sizing, the reduced result is used.
Multiply by 10^6 ... sanity efunda.

Reynolds.PNG
#14 Опубликовано: 08.06.2022 15:17:33
Alvaro Diaz Falconi

Alvaro Diaz Falconi

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Wrote

Multiply by 10^6 ... sanity efunda.



Sanity? You disappear the density! The relative error from 2.1 to 2.6 is about 25%. Can an orifice plate sensor deal with that? Of course, since the Reynolds number is only used in its calibration to make sure the fluid is turbulent, but not for any instrument adjustments. centi-Poise is the CGS unit for dynamic viscosity, while centi-Stoke is for kinetic viscosity. The dynamic viscosity can be obtained with cool prop for the operating temperature assuming quality equal to zero, that is, on the saturation line.

Clipboard01.jpg

Best regards.
Alvaro.
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fedeghi 09.06.2022 03:30:00
#15 Опубликовано: 08.06.2022 18:16:23
Jean Giraud

Jean Giraud

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Wrote

Can an orifice plate sensor deal with that? Of course, since the Reynolds number is only used in its calibration to make sure the fluid is turbulent, but not for any instrument adjustments.


Reynolds is essential to calculate the bore ratio wrt installation style
i.e: Flange, Corner, Pipe taps ... accordingly ISO-5167.

Pipe Reynolds.PNG
#16 Опубликовано: 08.06.2022 18:47:55
overlord

overlord

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Wrote

Reynolds in Samples Viscosity Water is correct for general use.
For Orifice Plate sizing, the reduced result is used.


Actually Reynolds in your "Samples>Viscosity Water" was wrong.
This is why you deleted the post I guess. But your file remains, be careful next time.
While you try to gloss over your failures at least don't leave trails.

Link to Jean's wrong viscosity calculation file

Second, there is no "reduced" result for Reynolds.
Reynolds is what it is, just one result.
There is no "complete" or "reduced" version of it.
Don't try to cover your mistake with a bigger falsification.

For those who will read this;
Do not use Jean's calculations for engineering applications. I know I wouldn't, never ever.
He will just act nothing wrong, call you names, how he won something something and lecture you he worked here and there.
But when caught with his pants down and can't resist he is wrong anymore, he will delete his posts without apologizing.
What if a new user or a student or an inexperienced engineer use his incorrect calculations?
Don't think we forgot your kW/hr absurdity.

Click to expand

Funny part is, even links he had given in his sample prove his calculations are wrong.

https://www.efunda.com/formulae/fluids/calc_reynolds.cfm#calc

Click to expand

https://www.ajdesigner.com/reynoldsnumber/reynoldsre.php#ajscroll

Click to expand
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fedeghi 09.06.2022 03:30:00
#17 Опубликовано: 08.06.2022 20:31:17
Jean Giraud

Jean Giraud

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I was not diligent wrt strictly pipe Reynolds vs other specific use.
Check the refreshed Viscosity Formulas, just posted.
Offer more practical formulas from data source that are just data.
Spirax Sarco was Bible in my times, maybe just bible today.
#18 Опубликовано: 08.06.2022 22:14:31
overlord

overlord

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Well, at least you made your viscosity calculations correct, FINALLY.
Took a while but you are improving against all odds.

However;
Click to expand
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Davide Carpi 09.06.2022 04:51:00, Wesly Centerwall 17.08.2022 13:46:00
#19 Опубликовано: 09.06.2022 10:06:36
Jean Giraud

Jean Giraud

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... download the last updated attachment.
#20 Опубликовано: 17.08.2022 13:45:15
Wesly Centerwall

Wesly Centerwall

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This topic should just be renamed to: "Jean gets wrecked" lol
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